tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post392492962815751432..comments2023-10-21T05:02:32.110-07:00Comments on Nick's Pix: REVIEW: STOP-LOSS (****)Actionmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-413072801608213472008-04-06T20:19:00.000-07:002008-04-06T20:19:00.000-07:00I know you were just kidding :)And you are definit...I know you were just kidding :)<BR/><BR/>And you are definitely right in oberseving that Hollywood's primary focus is to earn dollars; in most cases, art in the film world is an accident.Actionmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-10306018046822337732008-04-06T19:20:00.000-07:002008-04-06T19:20:00.000-07:00Passion is a wonderful thing. I do think that is a...Passion is a wonderful thing. I do think that is also what fires you about this issue. A sense that good, smart - passionate - work is being created and that it goes unappreciated. <BR/><BR/>But that is the point I was trying to make about the museums. Art so often is unappreciated. People vote with their pocketbook. If the level of discourse for the average person is an Adam Sandler movie or a Lyndsy Lohan pix than it stands to reason they are not going to be lining up for more cerebral efforts. <BR/><BR/> I continue to maintain that Hollywood's business is not art, but business. As such, there will be occasions where films of merit go unrewarded - and Pirates makes a billion dollars. It doesn't diminish either effort.<BR/><BR/>I was, to a small extent, kidding about calming down though. :)DAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06280127371216104129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-78964384402940774642008-04-06T14:55:00.000-07:002008-04-06T14:55:00.000-07:00I've been to enough museums to know that there are...I've been to enough museums to know that there are all kinds of great art.<BR/><BR/>And I am perfectly calm...having a completely rational discussion. I asked if Josh had seen any of the films in question. Because I feel that if he had/has, he wouldn't have made such a generalized, reactionary statement that all of the current Hollywood films dealing with Iraq are demonizing our troops. And this is the same exact argument that people were having when films about Vietnam started appearing in the marketplace. Granted, it was a while after the war that Hollywood started producing films about Vietnam.<BR/><BR/>I just think that these films prove to be both entertaining and socially relevant. And I think it's a shame that more people aren't going to them.<BR/><BR/>But as usual, you make excellent points, so in no way am I diasgreeing with what you've brought to this discussion.Actionmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-32760168595799774262008-04-06T13:12:00.000-07:002008-04-06T13:12:00.000-07:00Actionman - calm the f down will ya. Take somethin...Actionman - calm the f down will ya. Take something for that rage. Josh has a very valid point. One you and I have discussed on numerous occasions. Movies are the intersection of art and commerce. One man's art is another man's trash. Millions of people could care less about what is going on around them. They want to escape the real world for the reel world. So they aren't getting up early to go to the multiplex to sit for two hours being reminded how terrible things are. How two faced our government needs to be to sustain this war. How the pressure must assuredly lead some to going AWOL. They want clean stories with guys in white hats killing those in black hats. Or - some scarfaced psycho carving up a bunch of kids on Prom Night. and there are a whole bunch of those self-absorbed Hollywood execs who are in touch enough with THAT audience - to just keep pumping out the crap - and then going to the bank so they can make another payment on the house in Mailbu.<BR/>Stop worrying about the artists whose work is never seen. When was the last time you visited a museum.<BR/>I, however, still love yaDAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06280127371216104129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-68687060965446892022008-04-06T10:37:00.000-07:002008-04-06T10:37:00.000-07:00And in terms of a cetain film or type of film "des...And in terms of a cetain film or type of film "deserving" to make money...I can feel that way if I choose.<BR/><BR/>It enrages me that bull-fucking-shit properties like 21 or Jumper or 10,000 BC rake in the big bucks and serious, important, timely films like Stop-Loss, In the Valley of Elah, or Rendition all flop. And when Hollywood goes out and makes a kick-ass action film that is pretty gung-ho-American (The Kingdom), the film barely cracks $50 million domestic. Fucking pitiful. That film should've been a blockbuster; it's as straight out entertaining as any film of it's type in years.<BR/><BR/>And let me be clear; I am all for junk-food cinema in certain respects. People go to the movies to be entertained and I am down with watching a Pirates movie or Transformers or the upcoming Iron Man or Indy.<BR/><BR/>What bothers me is that people aren't giving the time of day to films that reflect what is going on in the world around them. They don't want to be reminded, they don't want to know about it. They're comfortable with their heads in the clouds...permanently.Actionmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-31774301549734240202008-04-06T10:34:00.000-07:002008-04-06T10:34:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Actionmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-65145106011895285412008-04-06T10:25:00.000-07:002008-04-06T10:25:00.000-07:00Have you seen ANY of the current Iraq war films? ...Have you seen ANY of the current Iraq war films? Any of them?<BR/><BR/>"Liberal circle jerks" they aren't. Not by a long shot. You'd see that if you've seen any of the films in question. Some of them have certainly been angry and reactionary, but for the most part, they've been honest and truthful and have been rooted in FACT and real situations. <BR/><BR/>Also, there are Arab-baddies in Bad Company. One of them thows themselves off a building in downtown NYC. There are two sets of baddies in Bad Company, the Russians, and the Arabs.<BR/><BR/>I just assumed the baddies on Collateral Damage were Arabs. They looked like Arabs in the trailer (never saw that film).Actionmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-42977470883363614892008-04-06T10:01:00.000-07:002008-04-06T10:01:00.000-07:00RIP, Charlton Heston.RIP, Charlton Heston.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04730316933433202342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-81944603628089884152008-04-06T09:58:00.000-07:002008-04-06T09:58:00.000-07:00While the release of Collateral Damage and Bad Com...While the release of Collateral Damage and Bad Company were postponed due to 9/11, the terrorists in the former are Colombian and Russian in the latter. <BR/><BR/>I agree with your point on Hollywood, and you assessment of self-indulgent filmmakers is just about right on the mark. And so while average Americans are struggling to pay their mortgages and fill up their gas tanks, Hollywood will continue throwing millions of dollars in the trash on products no one will see but themselves. At least they will try. I personally do not think that this is a sustainable economic model. There are only so many profitable video game films to go around to fund their little liberal circle jerks forever. And I think that now, some of the investment banks involved in the more complicated structured financing of these films, having been hit by the credit crunch, are going to look more closely at their projected returns. <BR/><BR/>No film "deserves" to make X dollars. And without an audience in mind, how can you even suggest as much? Does a restaurant that could care less about the fact that people are supposed to be eating the food they put on the plate "deserve" to be make a profit just because they think their food is interesting? What about a car that doesn't take into account engineering for human asses? Don't these asses know what's good for them!?<BR/><BR/>If you don't care about an audience, you can't complain when one doesn't exist. <BR/><BR/>Out of all the stories coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan, of all the heroic kids over their doing their jobs with honor and bravery, I find it sad that Hollywood can only cherry pick the story about the kid that goes AWOL, or the kid that goes crazy and murders someone, or the bad soldier who rapes someone. <BR/><BR/>It's not the majority of Americans that don't know what is going on in the world, it's the bubble of Hollywood. In the real world, brave Americans are currently successfully clearing out terrorists from Iraq and creating safe neighborhoods thanks to the change in tactics from General Petraeus. In the real world, Radical Islamists continue to plot against western targets, including the US, while they enforce medieval laws on their their own societies, both within their countries and within their western host countries. Also in the real world, the "evil" United States and its citizens continue to be the most generous of any other country and citizenry in the history of the world, sending millions of dollars to combat AIDS in Africa and millions to (Islamic!) countries like Indonesia and Iran to help with earthquake assistance and other humanitarian efforts. Most Americans know this, which is why most Americans are turning their backs and wallets away from a Hollywood that is painfully out of touch.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04730316933433202342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-55529745689320491882008-04-05T19:39:00.000-07:002008-04-05T19:39:00.000-07:00And also, Collateral Damage, an Arnold action vehi...And also, Collateral Damage, an Arnold action vehicle that was delayed because of 9/11, featured Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. As did Bad Company with Chris Rock and Anthony Hopkins. And both of those films flopped (even with the help of Arnold and Bruckheimer respectively).<BR/><BR/>I think the reluctance of Americans to pay their money to see films centered on the Iraq war is because they don't want to be reminded of what's going on around them. Do you think the common high school kid reads a newspaper or tunes in to the nightly news? I don't. They are more likely to get their news from online sources. So sadly, I don't expect teenagers, much less adults who really live with this stuff in a more intrinsic way, flocking to see movies about Iraq.<BR/><BR/>The thing about Hollywood is, at least as I've come to understand it while working out here, is that the Hollywood suits don't give a flying fuck about anyone but themselves. True, they mass-market the franchise films (Pirates, Spidey, etc) so they can make the big bucks, but the smaller films, the ones that are normally the "prestige pictures," often feature themes and stories that Hollywood filmmakers are interested in, and less about what the public is craving. A film like Stop-Loss was NEVER going to be a $100 million dolllar blockbuster. But it deserves to make more than $10 million, which it will barely see in it's entire run at the domestic b.o. They aren't making these pictures for the audience per se; it's more about their desire to tell a specific sort of story.<BR/><BR/>And yet, as each one of these films comes and goes at the box office, Hollywood continues to green-light more projects centered on the war. Paul Greengrass and Matt Damon are doing an Iraq war thriller, Robert Redford and Sean Penn are tackling Robert Clarke's book Against all Enemies, and this fall we'll have the Ridley Scott-Leo Di Caprio-Russell Crowe terrorist thriler Body of Lies. And those are just three that immediately come to mind.<BR/><BR/>At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter either. I am just sick of hearing complete bull shit like "these Iraq war movies suck", and it's personally frustrating that a wide majority of Americans don't want to know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to what's happening around us.Actionmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-89441338986272710352008-04-05T18:52:00.000-07:002008-04-05T18:52:00.000-07:00did u see the film in question?at no point during ...did u see the film in question?<BR/><BR/>at no point during Stop-Loss are the troops slandered or anything less than patriotic and noble. they are portrayed as brave young men, and while they may be flawed as individuals, the film is CERTAINLY pro-soldier, yet anti-war.Actionmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16513109522731313470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-45557718408200561392008-04-05T17:49:00.000-07:002008-04-05T17:49:00.000-07:00Whether or not it will take a recession to stop Ho...Whether or not it will take a recession to stop Hollywood execs to greenlight films that will lose money is a valid question at this point. Whether on not they will recognize that what all these films have in common is a negative portrayal of America and US soldiers during wartime is also a valid question. <BR/><BR/>It's very simple: most Americans, including those who are AGAINST the war, do not want to see a movie that denigrates the troops. Most Americans understand that notwhithstanding Iraq, Bush, current foreign policy - we still have enemies and these films serve as propaganda for these enemies.<BR/><BR/>Americans "care about things going on around them." They just don't want to spend their money on anti-American diatribes. <BR/><BR/>Do Americans want to spend their money on pro-American propaganda? Who knows? It's been over five years since radical Islamists attacked the US, and Hollywood has yet to produce a film depicting them as the enemy. (And no - United 93 and World Trade Center most certainly don't count. Neither does The Kingdom or Munich as they were both riddled with moral equivalence.) I think one has to go back to 1994 to True Lies to find a film depicting radical Islamists as the enemy. Interestingly, a wild success. If I had to guess, I would think Americans would pay to see a film depicting our enemy as our enemy instead of ourselves as the enemy. (I haven't seen Vantage Point but I understand it has such a depiction and seems to be making money.) <BR/><BR/>A final point (Sorry for the long comment). Both Stalin and Chairman Mao had contracts out on John Wayne. It wasn't because his films bombed at the box office. The enormous, worldwide success of his films and his persona as the emblematic strong American was recognized by our enemies a powerful symbol of American freedom. Our current enemies look at Ryan Phillipe and just chuckle.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04730316933433202342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1765008161115599620.post-59149007706207226062008-04-04T17:22:00.000-07:002008-04-04T17:22:00.000-07:00I commented on one of your older posts, but in cas...I commented on one of your older posts, but in case you dont read it i was just browsing blogs and found yours. I think that you are right, people need to start opening their eyes and start to pay attention to whats going on in this world. Ive actually wanted to see this movie for a while but never got around to it but after reading what you wrote [i read the whole thing] im going to make certain that i watch this film. Thanx for making this post...Edithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17636564254179795584noreply@blogger.com